audio_only_16782338_Lars

[00:00:01 – 00:10:02]

Lars

Hello.

Lars

Yes, yeah. Thank you. I really enjoy to be part of your podcast series and yes, my name is Lars and I joined Mercateo 20 years ago or almost right from the beginning. It was founded in also into, at the beginning from 2000, then I joined it then, I think it was April 2000, and yeah, it was quite of an interesting time of course, you had that dot-com startup thing around 2000, 99, 2000 in Europe and it was already crashed in the States at that time and yeah, I am responsible at Mercateo for the whole supply side, so for Mercateo suppliers and also Unite suppliers, we will come to that later, I think and yes, we have an international team to care about all the suppliers. Of course the main team is in Germany, this is where we come from, and yeah, you name some numbers, those were the numbers from Germany. If you look at the article numbers, we have around Europe, also with our closed platform or network platform, we have about more than 400 million products we have on our platform. And yes, well, that is it actually.

Lars

Yeah, it was quite a long wait, it is 20 years. Not many from that time are still alive. So, how many times do we have? No, just kidding. No. Yes, well, we started in 2000, also already as a b2b platform. We always have been a b2b platform and we concentrated only on b2b and we did not change it at any time and we will not change it in the future, but when we started, we do not, we had not that marketplace we have it right now so, we had different b2b relevant areas, we had that product selling platform of course, we have right now, then we had RFQs, we had notice boards and we had a yeah, b2b relevant information, we had partner for that but, so all around which is good for b2b customers and we concentrate on small and medium-sized customers at that time. And okay, then when the, one of the first things was of course the crash, in 2000, this startup crash and well, we came through this with a partner too at that time which was Eon, that energy company, I think well known in each country and then we had a management buyout at the end of 2003 and we get in some venture capitalists so, at that time, it was the beginning of 2004, there was money for that, for two three years, the money was all gone because of the crash of course and I think one really interested thing is in 2000, we started with google marketing and we had our shop with, I think it was three main product categories. There was hardware, software, office products and office… yeah, well office supplies and office equipment. And yes, and then at that time, we started google marketing. I think we at the time, we were the first one who did it in a professional way in Germany. There are a lot of funny stories about that, when we started google marketing and then something went wrong. At that time, google was 10 people in Germany in Hamburg and then you had, you called the office in Hamburg and they said well, we cannot do anything, you have to wait until the sun rises in California and the business day was gone at that day, and it really worked from the beginning. And so, we did google advertising and search engine optimization and this was the basis for our growth in the last decade. Yeah, we really just grew with google. And when we made that management by our to, at the end of 2003, beginning 2004, we just concentrate on our marketplace, on that product relevant categories so, no RFQs, notice boards and everything we, during that time, we also had different business units, like we had e-commerce solutions mainly for Eon and yeah.

Lars

Yes, well, at the beginning, we had that full range, like, that RFQs and also that, yeah, marketplace. I think there is no clear definition. We say it is a marketplace but what really is a marketplace? What is a platform, network and everything? I think we come to that later but we now say it is a marketplace. At the beginning, it was more a shop because we had one supplier per category and they did drop shipment with our delivery note and for the customers, we were the retailer, this is what we still are but our understanding is more of a marketplace or become a marketplace because now in Germany, we have about 700 suppliers and also more suppliers for one product and, but they all, what they all do is drop shipment and marketing delivery notes so, if it comes to the customer, he sees well, the retailer actually is marketing. This is not our self-understanding but we are legally a retailer at that moment but so we did not have that, really problem to that chicken egg thing, well we had, not on the supply side, we had some because it was 2000, and everybody says okay, if something is new, let us try it.

[00:10:03 – 00:20:29]

Lars

So, we had really good suppliers at that time say okay, we will invest in that and see what happens, and it happened nothing in 2000 and 2001 yeah. So, the chicken egg thing was, okay, we had the idea of the suppliers and our idea, what we did not have? The customers. And we started to begin to get the customer with google but you only had the chance from beginning 2000 because before, there were no AdWords, nobody, well google was quite well known at the moment but nobody thought about product search. Yes.

Lars

Yes, there is, so we decide who becomes our supplier, so who comes on Mercateo says no self-service, so not every retailer from the market can get on the platform, yeah. Well, there is a formula he can ask us, I want to become the supplier from Mercateo and we will decide well, is he good enough for our process, is he good enough for our customers, can he do, has relevant products and the right products of course, are they legally correct, this is what we of course all prove. Yes, so we decide and it is not open. So, in several categories, they are, well it is not close, we have a good assortment, we have good supplies and we do not need more. And this comes, we will come later to that. So, this is, we are the intermediary in that case. So, we decide the rules. This is like Amazon who is the vendor of Amazon and also Amazon decides who becomes on the marketplace, they are also intermediary. So, like, we are, at Mercateo, we have several suppliers but we can decide who we want to have on the platform. EBay, Amazon okay Rakuten, just gone but they actually, they also decide but at first, you can just self-onboard yourself in and afterwards they decide, if you do not act correct, they remove you from the platform, but this is, we do not have that, we decide it before.

Lars

Yeah, yes, we have the risk management, we have an own customer service. At the beginning, it started, I think at 7 and 2, 2 to 8 PM so, which you can reach as a customer personally and now here we have the business times, it is starting at 8 to, I think 6 pm so, we do all, actually we do everything a retailer does, all the processes but not logistics so the returns go directly to the supplier. Yeah, with contracts for all of that and of course, it is very interesting for the customer because the smaller ones, they just have one-stop shop and the other ones, they say okay, I have a lot of products in one process, one creditor, maybe one interface. And what we did from, right from the beginning when we started to raise the assortment on the platform, yeah, we had three product categories, I do not know how many it is now. We almost have everything, tools, car parts, platform for laboratory and so, yeah, everything.

Lars

Yes, in the way, we did, I think from the beginning. This is what we know afterwards of course. Yeah and but what we did is we concentrated on the long tail, so if the curve of the indirect spend, yeah, if you look at the left side, you have that high volume and with a few suppliers and then you have a large amount of products which you need only once a year and so, you have millions of products with very low revenue. So, this is what we concentrate on. We say we have all the products in one process, you need only one creditor, you get everything, you do not get the best price, we have no individual pricing, so everybody pays the same price, like, we have one of our larger customers RWE and they say, maybe they have, oh we have customers with 100 orders a day in the long tail, they say pay the same price, then a Laurier who purchases once a year, so this is what we concentrated on the long tail.

Lars

Yes. So, yeah, it is not only convenient for the smaller one but the main thing is and this is what we concentrated on is the professional purchasing, professional purchasing departments and they are looking on the processing costs. So, they have contract suppliers and this is what we believe in b2b by the way, is that you have strong relation, one-to-one relationships which is regarding of course prices, individual pricing and services and consulting product advices, this is what you have in b2b. You will actually, maybe product advice is also b2c but it is not in that number because you have a large number of products you do not have in b2c car parts, yeah. So, and also tools, there is a large amount of tools you do not need at home so, and then very special ones. So, and then, this is why you have, or this is what we do believe is that you have that one-to-one relationships and this is why we have, when we come to Unite is that we manage those one-to-one connections and at the end, we have the long tail nobody wants to care about. So, the large number for this is like if you see larger companies and they have about say, the ducks 30s yeah, they maybe have indirect spent regarding that cataloguer catalog articles, not services, there is also cleaning services, also indirect spent but regarding catalog articles. So, they have maybe around 100 contract suppliers. Within their SAP, they have more than two thousand suppliers where they have that once one purchasing that I am spot buy, what you call spot buy, you purchase it once a year, it is pink copy paper. Well, when do you need this? Maybe once a year. And so, and for this, you need a supplier, you have a creditor, you have an invoice and you all get this with paper, you have to manage the creditor manual in your SAP and this is where Mercateo stands for. This is Mercateo said, this is large amount suppliers, one creditor and you know what you want, do not ask for the price, no product advice, pink copy paper. You get it and you get it with an interface to SAP and without that, you have processing costs about around 100 euros and now it is far away from 10, so it is maybe five, six, seven euros, the processing cost. So you do not have to look at the price of pink copy paper, if it is five euros 50 or if it is 15 euros 50. So, this is what we believe in, this is Mercateo, the tail end spend, and on the other side, you have that one-to-one connections.

[00:20:30 – 00:30:51]

Lars

Yes, well, what I think is Amazon business, they come out of their thinking from where Amazon comes from. Yeah, they focus of course of the customer but what they do is they focus only the customer, actually they do not focus on the supply side so, and this is what they seem to do also in Amazon business. Yes, and they come really more from it is convenient as, you know, as a private person, it will be for you in Amazon business and of course, they start with interfaces and everything but this is where they start only with the really large companies, what we see at the moment, some medium-sized companies too and but what they think is they still want to be the intermediary. So, this is, and this is where we are of course in the competitive position with the Amazon marketplace with our Mercateo and this is why we concentrate on Unite and design it as a network and not as a marketplace. So, as a network, you have to look at both sides, supply side and customer side. It is not well balanced because it is, well, it is the internet, it is transparency, it is not what all the suppliers like, they really enjoy to take the time machine back into the 90s but they accept it in 2020, well, it will not go. So, the internet we still have, the internet for the next years and so, but it is, maybe it is not totally balanced but you have to look at it, you have, you cannot focus in the network. Network only works if there are a lot of users on both sides, especially a b2b network and if you only focus on the customers, like Amazon does or also eBay, then it will not work with the network. So, you will not come into scaling network processes, there will not be a supplier who says to his customers, please buy my articles on Amazon business so, and what Amazon is for the suppliers, it is, and like Mercateo, the marketplace, it is in sales channel. Yes, you get revenue but not with your customers, it is the customer of the platform, of the marketplace and they decide the change of the rules and they change the rules and it is not your customer. You can, almost cannot influence if he buys one, once a product at your marketplace shop that he did it the next time too because you do not know how is the search engine, how does the search engine works, you have to do Amazon search engine marketing at the end and, but you cannot influence it. And the intermediary, it is the customer of the marketplace. Also at Mercateo, it is our customer, we decide what happens with the customer, we decide how is our search result looking like, we decide what data do you have to leave to bring but Unite as a network, you have to look well, what is good for both sides and yeah.

Lars

Yeah. Okay. Yeah, well, we designed it as a really neutral infrastructure, a structure or platform just to digitize the transactions between customers and suppliers and that in a really easy way, so really to keep it simple to do it like a click. So, like, when we connect, well it is not really b2b network but it is a network like LinkedIn, Oxy, so I connect you like sync or link it in and you see, well, this is Lars connecting me, I see him, yes, I know him and then I say okay. And then I can see your telephone number or whatever communication data and this is what our thinking is, Unite. The customer says well, I want to buy the products or get connected to this supplier, actually I know this supplier so, and then I ask him to connect via by Unite and he sees oh, well, this is a customer for me or it is a new customer and I say, well, this is, oh that is okay and you can get connected. So, I confirm the question and then he can see the products and the prices. Well, I can do this also as a supplier automatically, so that he can directly get connected to me and see the products and prices but I can also say, no, I first want to confirm it because with b2b, you say, well no, that is not my target group, I actually, I do not want to buy with this and then it is designed as the network and that is the network idea that we motivate the customers to bring the suppliers on the platform. This is what they all already did with classic e-procurement platforms. I decide which is my purchasing platform and I tell you as my contract supplier, come on this platform and you, as a supplier you say, well, whoa, it is Deutsche Bahn. Okay, I will go on the platform, otherwise indirect spend, there are many other suppliers you can purchase with the same service and same prices. So, you will go on the platform, so motivation comes but if it is not an A or B customer for you on the supply side and it says bit go on that platform and that is what I say, well, that is too much effort for me, I will not go on the platform, you can buy the products at another place, so…

Lars

Yeah, order from the marketplace and also you can get connected because Unite and the Mercateo, it is just connected, you can get as a Mercateo customer if you are not lucky with the prices or services we can deliver, so we cannot deliver this product in one day, maybe you can choose you your supplier and you decide well, I want you on that platform and this is easily, if you have an interface to Mercateo, it is just per click, you get the supplier in your own view, yeah and the process is directly digitized so in your SAP. You put the product in the basket, you export the basket in SAP, you say ‘order’ it goes back and we forward this to the supplier and…

Lars

Yes. Yeah, you can say it. Yeah, it is really just, get connected, like a click, with the click. And on the other side, maybe just once, and we also, this is, well actually, that is not unusual that the customer says, I use this platform to go on that platform, yeah. And it is quite easy if you, for the larger suppliers you have but if you have a supplier, we say you may only need, not a few euros but maybe a few thousand euros a year, the supplier says, no, I will not join this platform, it is too much effort for me, yeah you have to make more than 10,000 euro revenue with me because the effort is say, 5,000 euros for me to get connected to that platform and so, you have between the contract suppliers and the tail and spend, there is a large amount of suppliers. You have, actually you have a one-to-one connection but it is not easy to manage it in a digital way because you need interfaces and they will cost a bit, so you do not make interfaces with 2,000 creditors in your system but if you have relevant suppliers, you say, okay, I choose this, this, this one and one click, I have them in my digitized process. So, and this is that easy that we can also motivate the suppliers to bring their customers, so we have supplies there, you have a customer says, okay, I want to have an interface with you or some b2b relevant purchasing features, like multi-user or something and he does not have in his shop and say, can you do it via Unite? You have every feature, you have an interface, just click my name or my logo and then you have my product data within your system.

[00:30:52 – 00:40:06]

Lars

Well, in the main meeting of our partners or at the moment, we focus on our different e-procurement systems. We have our own, so the Mercateo marketplace has also e-procurement functionalities. So RWE uses this and some other larger ones and a lot of medium-sized companies and but of course, there are a large amount of e-procurement systems in the market. We, and we are in the competition with them but that is the normal thing, but to those in procurement systems, they have no solutions for the tail end spend for that spot market thing, they only have a solution for the contract suppliers which are only a few. Larger companies, it is about 100, medium-sized, it is five to fifty maybe, that depends on well, medium-sized companies in Germany, it is a really wide range from 500 employees to 5000 or even larger, if you ask Mila, it is family-owned company. They say, we are medium-sized company, they have 17,000 employees. By the way, also a customer of Mercateo, and so, we do not see them in that way as a competitor. So, we have that tail end spend, and also not only the really tail end which is Mercateo and, or Amazon, they are e-procurement system, they have connections to Amazon business of course, but you have the contract suppliers, you have the tail end spend and in between, there is a large amount, interesting suppliers, you want to have one-to-one connection but the effort on both sides is too high to get it digitized. So, you can, we have an RP to the e-procurement say, SAP Ariba, Veneering and Integra. At the moment, we have contracts with a lot more, we have to, on both sides, to make it happen that it works for the customers and so, the contract suppliers are within SAP Ariba and then they have a connection to Unite, the Ariba customer can say, okay, I want to have the products from this, this, this supplier, also from the Mercateo marketplace, pink copy paper and then they get it in their SAP Ariba, in their look and feel and so, this is where we say, well, the network can use the customer wherever he is and if he uses Mercateo as an e-procurement system, you also can take part at the Unite network and if he uses SAP Ariba be nearing whatever, if they have an API to Mercateo that you can also use the network. So, this is where we are totally open.

Lars

Yes. Yeah. Well, it is, well, we are at the beginning. We have them and we have good numbers so that we say, it is fine for the beginning but to start it, this is what we see is b2b is a bit slower than b2c, yeah. So, it was a hard way to go and we are on a good way. We have good feedback from the market. We have that network's effect that we have suppliers who bring the customers on Unite, different motivations, some do to manage, they see customers, I still want to be connected to my C customers of course but in an easy way, so they say, C customers, please go to Mercateo, use my, what we call ‘business shop’ So, on Unite, you have your own shopping shop, it is like a marketplace shop on eBay or on Amazon. It is maybe a bit more, yeah, you see who is the supplier, you see the logo, contact data, what is the special thing of the supplier and so, of course we have, on the customer side, they invite via Unite the suppliers and different things we have on the supply side, we have some suppliers, they do not have in shops, smaller or medium sized manufacturers, for spare parts, spare parts and they link on their website to say, my shop is a business shop on Unite. So, they bring their customers to Unite. We have, we train sales teams from our suppliers who say, okay, if there are special points on the customer side, we cannot solve but maybe Unite can, then say, give him the link to our business shop that he get connected via Unite to us. So, and you can also invite via Unite, send the customer link, here is the link to my business shop and this is what happens at the moment, so we get those customers from the suppliers, not in that amount that we really want to because it is well, it is, for many suppliers, it is a high hurdle, yeah, to tell their own employees to bring their customers on another platform.

Lars

Yet, it is not on the supply side, it is not mainly the process costs. The main thing on the customer side is the process costs, not on the supply side. So, if they have a good shop, then they, and I also can do in an SAP integration or by OCI or whatever. Well, it is at least, it is the same processing costs by Unite as its own shop. Most of them do not have that possibility to do this and that is the main thing. They are not able. The largest suppliers in the market, they can do everything in digitalization with the customers because they are forced via Siemens, Volkswagen, whatever. They forced him to do everything in a digitized way, but not the smaller ones. So, they can perform on the other side, product wise services in the same way as the larger suppliers but they do not have digitization competence. So, this is where they can go to the customer and say, if you want digitized processes, I cannot do this for you but I have a solution and this is a platform, use...

Lars

Yes. It is an, and of course, the market pressure is to use platforms, to use a platform where you have several suppliers, several products and actually not only products comes with the suppliers but several suppliers. It is a multi-supplier platform, this is a clear trend in b2b on the customer side and this is what you cannot solve with your own shop anyway, so, but if you, in b2b, if a customer, if you have good connections, maybe he say, okay, I will not purchase at your shop anymore because you do not have those processes, b2b purchasing features like multi-user and whatever, I will go to Amazon business. This is actually what the normal customer does not say, they are just gone so, you have, the suppliers have to change their mind to find out more from the customers, not that they are buying tools that they give them product advice to buy the right tool but how does he purchase tomorrow, and then I have to say, okay, tomorrow the way is, you want to use a platform, maybe if you use Mercateo or Unite, it is better for me than Amazon business, if you use Amazon business. So, I try him to use the best platform for me as a supplier and this is why he is motivated to bring the customer to Unite.

[00:40:07 – 00:50:24]

Lars

I do not know any supplier who is motivated to bring his own customers to Amazon business or eBay or whatever platform because this is what I mean with the balance, he has the same process, at least the same processing because for many, it is maybe cheaper to use Unite also for the process but well, of course it has a neutral platform. Yes, we have on the Mercateo marketplace which is inner end Unite, of course we sell probably the same products but at a quite high level in b2b, we are not the cheapest, far away from the cheapest. This is what you never want to be when you are talking about tail end spend, you cannot be the cheapest with 24 million products. So, this is what I think the main is, of course it is that neutral, we are neutral, it is trust, we have really good, they have a personal contact with Mercateo Unite, people in my team and yes, I think that is one of the main things but it is still a hurdle for them of course, the most medium-sized, to bring a customer, it is all his own customer to another platform, even if you say, well, it is a better platform than Amazon business or whatever platform, yeah. I do not want to bash too much to Amazon but well, and this is what we say Unite for him is, it is in sales instrument, it is not a sales channel. You can use Amazon business, they bring the customer, like Mercateo marketplace, it is just revenue, it is nice, yeah. And you say, well, it is worth 50 percent, 15 percent maybe, yeah. So, to bring your own customer on, you do not bring your customer in that sales channel, you have to use it as a sales instrument, integrate it to your sales strategy, yeah, because my sales team has to know more about the customer, in the near future, they have to find out.

Lars

Yeah. It is a hard job at the moment. In the most cases.

Lars

Yeah. I think it is, well, it helps us that we are on the market for 20 years now. We have, to several suppliers, really long relationships on of course, Mercateo comes from Mercateo, and a large number of suppliers are also on Unite because they say, well, what you do, we have a good feeling. If we try it with you, it is still, well, it is not a network from the beginning of course, it is a chicken egg thing and, but we will try it because we trust you. And this is, we trust we have good connection. It is a five person tools retailer in say, near Berlin and we are also in good connections with Conrad, with his own, tries to establish his own b2b marketplace, by the way. We have no problem with that, yeah. It is more vertical and not really horizontal but so, from really smaller ones to the really big ones, yeah, and this is for years but we still, of course when we come to new suppliers who heard of Mercateo or well, use it and then they say, well, you sell the same products you must be evil, well, it takes a bit more discussion to tell them what is it about Unite, it is for the existence connections, it is not the problem, but this is what we see is the more and more users on the customer side we have, of course the supplier look more on the platform, oh, what is that? Do I have to deal with this? And if you look at Mercateo where we sell the products, yeah, where we have certain manufacturers, if you go to the product detail page where you can buy the product from Mercateo, you will see in that article description, so if you are a power user of this manufacturer so you need services, product advices, maybe you purchase more than only one piece, you need individual conditions, you can just sign up here and get connected directly to the manufacturer or retailer of the manufacturer, depends on how the manufacturer deals in the market, so some go direct to the customer, many not. So, this is what we do on our Mercateo platform. I think this is really trustful too. He say, we really want, we have Mercateo customers but we want them to be in the network. Of course we are not, we have that not, rather red cross on our shirt but because we get a stickiness to the platform of course, if they find their suppliers on our platform managed in a good way, they will not change the platform, they will not pay, they will not buy pink copy paper at any other place because they, we do not care about pink copy paper but we have our, not only our contract suppliers but all the other relevant ones, we have now in the digitized process, and this is what more and more suppliers see but still a hard way to go but we see that the network is growing, we see that the suppliers bring their customers and of course the customers, vice versa. That is what you have on other platforms too of course, that you say, well, I am but that is what we see also is that, sorry, that some customers say they cannot bring the suppliers on that platform because the purchasing volume is too low and then they say well go to Unite, then you have other customers too, and if I have it on Unite then I… And this is what we call the customer pings the supplier and then we go to the supplier, this customer wants you on the platform and then you see that the supplier says, well, this is too small one, still for Unite, I will not get on Unite. And then you get the second ping from another customer, it was just a couple of weeks ago and then supplier said, well, that is the second customer, maybe there comes the third, fourth, fifth one, okay I will go on the platform. So, and…

Lars

That becomes more and more relevant of course. It comes from the public customers and the larger ones, especially also from, oh sorry, there is something with my printer here in the home office. If you can hear that, I apologize for that but it just, I do not know what is just from itself, I do not know. Okay. Yeah, it is…

Lars

Yeah, of course this topic becomes more and more relevant and we see it from especially public customers and larger companies. So, and we started with, on Mercateo, we started with special search filters, like special criteria’s, FSC certification which is an industry standard but, or in Germany with that blower angle, I do not know it is not international, I think it is a special label for sustainable products and what we plan to do is not only on Mercateo but on Unite, that the customer can choose, that he can make filters, that he can say, okay, I do not just want to have suppliers with this criteria’s, they are FSC certificate, they signed a, well, corporate social responsibility contract whatever.

[00:50:25 – 01:00:06]

Lars

I think the problem at the moment is which are the certain criteria’s? Well, first you had that corporate social responsibility, now you have that environmental and social governance, ESG becomes more and more a relevant topic and that is really good and, but what are really the defined criteria’s? So, if we have, and then we have a special role as a platform to make it transparent. Platform is, I think one of the main things is to make it transparent for everybody. So, then I can choose the suppliers in a way that I say I have a good feeling because they behave in an ESG conform way and of course you need the information, you need relevant product data, you have to motivate the supply side to relieve, to deliver the relevant product data and also for the company to make transparence about how they act in the market so, and yeah, that is really… Yeah, I think for the next month, we really do a lot of effort to go in that way. It is the way to go.

Lars

In fact, I believe it. I am sorry but in fact, I believe that is the main thing at the moment and the others, yes, they want. They want the lowest price but with sustainable products and they more and more do, we have one larger customer, he said to us at the end of 2000, I think it was 2020, I do not want to have any delivery with plastic. Is that really better? Is it better to get a packaged item with plastic which goes directly from the manufacturer to the customer? Oh, it goes through the whole logistic hubs via Germany without plastic but 1000 kilometers more to the customer so, this is, I really, the life cycle assessment is a really complex thing, I think. So, what we can do as a platform is to make it as transparent as we can, and this is what we need good for on product side, we have a product level, we need a good information which is not that easy to get from. I think there are a lot of products and more and more come into the market which are sustainable, but well, as we can see what comes on the larger private market places from far east, I do not really believe that they really do care about, on the product level maybe and, but this is, as a platform, we have to make a transparent, we see they are coming more and more products and the customer, well, they purchase this or they, well, they try to, of course. Yeah, then you have to make that they can find them, and but also that ESG is it is not only in product thing, it is how does the supplier act or the company acts actually, yeah, or it is the whole behavior of the company, is it an environmental and social? The social thing also is a really important thing and this is difficult to make a transparent, you need the information from the companies and, but also the criteria, and they are not really clear.

Lars

Well, I think not too far away, we work on this but it is just in process to find out what is the right thing, what does really the customer side wants, what really can the supply side deliver and then to bring it together. And this is, well, yeah, maybe it is just evaluation at the moment. I think it is not technically that complex, it is more motivation on the supply side to bring the data and then the customer that they really use this to make, to bring them in the use, they really click on ‘I only want suppliers who are an ESG ready’ or whatever, then you need to compare of course all other suppliers and also in the network, they have to sign a code of conduct, yeah. So, it is, yes, this is what we do. I think not the other platforms do not but that is just the beginning, yeah.

Lars

Yeah, this is… Well, I… Yeah, it sounds good, I think the reality is different because we as a platform cannot really decide, is there a product worldwide in the market like a hammer, just a hammer who is more sustainable than the other one? So, we cannot decide it, there must be different, like a label, like blower angle. If there is, then we say, okay, we maybe highlight the blower angle hammer but we cannot, we on our own, on our platform, cannot decide which is more sustainable than the other one. Is the wood for the hammer your… has it an FSC certificate? Has it more value for the customer than the blower angle? So, we can only make it transparent and okay, what we should do and what we will do is to make it not only transparent but to bring it to the market of course, to motivate the supply side to deliver this and say, okay, the customer wants this because we have it not on, you do not need five clicks to get to sustainable products, to make a transparent in a prominent way so that you could say the first choice should be, yeah. This is what we then have to think about.

Lars

Yeah, gives the customer a choice and of course, it is a topic, yeah. We can say, okay, we evaluate in two years. Yeah, we start to evaluate it now and even though there is not the whole market wants that, now it is a few customers but we know it becomes more, but it could be easy for us to say, well okay, we deal with it next year or in two years. So, this is why we focus it right now but it is not really easy because what we cannot do, as I said before, is to say which is the most sustainable product, which is the most sustainable supplier because the market is, if you say you have that ESG as an environmental and social governance, it is, whoa, it is a wide topic.

[01:00:07 – 01:09:55]

Lars

It is not what you concrete say, you have to do this and you have five criteria’s and if you are fine with five criteria’s, it is a better suppliers with those four criteria’s, they are not clear at the moment, yeah. So, you have some, also certifications and this is what we can, from the beginning make transparent and that is, yeah well, that is a challenge of course for, I think probably next one or two years. And then motivate of course, more motivation on the supply side and then to generate the right pressure from the market side and this is what I mean make it transparent not only on five clicks to use on the platform and we say we have it. If you want, you have it, you cannot find it but we have it, to make it of course transplant right from the beginning to the market.

Lars

Yes. Yeah, well, I think this is what you, in our business, what you have to do, because innovation, it comes not from us the customers, and then act like the customer wants. I think then we are probably back in the halls but we say, I do not need a roof above my head so, or if you see that roller skates and roller blades, if you were for the roller skates and if you came to the market and said, well, do you want roller blades with the four in one row? Then everybody said, are you crazy? So, innovation I think is in, you have to try and find out, and also with the platform business, some things that are quite clear and you have especially b2b, it just needs time and you strong belief of course in what you do and, but in that, well, it is not the main focus, it is a focus of course is sustainability and we want to come to this quite early but if you do something, the market… from the customer side and you see on the product level, there are more and more sustainable products but the whole behavior of the economy in this direction, it is just a long way and we can try to do our part to make it, maybe faster and I think transparency is one of the main things and also probably act ourselves more and more in that way of course as a company too, and yeah, I still believe transparency is one of the main thing and then motivation of course, and yeah, maybe to push you say, well, the highlighted suppliers are on the first page or the other one you have really to look for.

Lars

Yeah, I think b2b trust comes first. So, this is how we did act really the, though I am within Mercateo for 20 years and right from the beginning, trust was always, I can really stand for that that we have really trustful relationship on both sides, on the customer side and also supply side, and on supply side, maybe it is not that usual.

Lars

Yes, what I really clearly see is when, what we see in the market on, okay, more view in the supply side of course but sometimes also to the customer side and of course listen to our sales team is that, well, platform business is the future. This is not only because we do this, we believe in this, so we must say that, that is quite clear but what I see is that on both sides of the market, a lot of companies do not have a clear platform strategy. They use it in some way but not with the strategy. Well, yeah, I try Amazon business, I maybe try eBay, well I try Mercateo or Unite but not with the clear strategy, and that is the key point. What they need is, and this is really difficult to tell also the medium-sized companies. On both sides, supplier and customer, to say you need a strategy, you need persons who help you. If you do not have it within your company, which is quite complex to get the right people, not to Berlin maybe, not to Cologne maybe, not to Leipzig but wherever you are seated. It is not easy to get the right people, then maybe consultancy is a nice thing, yeah, to find your strategy. I think the strategy is one of the key points that a lot of companies have no strategy and this is fine maybe for the moment. Before corona of course that was, everything was fine, the economy raises, everybody was lucky, so you do not see that there is something missing really but I think now it becomes really clear that they will define and find their strategy. I think that is one of the key points for the market.

Lars

Yeah. And most of them need help, they need external help. And this is, maybe some do not accept this but, that they really will need that.

Lars

Yeah, thank you.

Lars

Yeah, thank you very much.

Lars

Yes. Yeah, thank you very much. Yeah.

Lars

Yeah, thank you very much. Bye-bye.